The political genius of Charlie Kirk

Part 1

Okay, everybody. I had the opportunity to go to Tucker Carlson's barn and sit down for a two-hour conversation with him. First, Tucker's a great friend and he's doing such amazing journalism and work. We've known each other for well over 10 years and have had a phenomenal friendship and it was great to actually be able to go on his podcast for the first time. We talked about a lot here. Uh, this conversation is going viral for a reason. We talk about Gen Z, we talk about RussiaGate. So, I'm going to kind of usher you through this entire conversation and give you some intros throughout all of it. Just some extra thoughts, things to add on top of that conversation. But first, make sure you guys subscribe to our YouTube channel, hit the bell, uh go in the comments, and leave your comment and your feedback to this conversation, and text this episode to your friends.

We begin in kind of a comical way where we talk about RussiaGate. Honestly, can we get three cheers for Tulsi Gabbard? Tulsi Gabbard is doing a phenomenal job. She is really serving the president wonderfully and getting to the bottom of what happened in the 2020 election. Are we finally going to be able to get to the bottom of this? And will people like Barack Obama finally be able to go to jail? Watch.

T- So, it looks like we're finally going to get the details of RussiaGate. Like, what was that? Um, it seemed manufactured at the time. It seemed fake. It was confusing. Like, where did this come from? All of a sudden, out of nowhere, we all hate Russia and Trump is a Russian agent. Something that no one had ever said before. And then it just saturated the media and it was the only topic for a couple years.

C- Yes.

T- And no one ever went back to examine —how do you create a story out of nothing and then convince the Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, New York Times— to write about it every day? And I think we're going to find out now.

[Music] [Applause] [Music]

C- Well, great to be here, Tucker. Yeah, I hope so. Yeah.

T- Sorry, Charlie. It's great to see you! You know, as I get older, my manners just evaporate.

C- This is like Frost-Nixon, you know? It's like straight in. It's like, sorry. It's like the first question— why'd you burn the tapes? Oh, yeah. Great to be here, Tucker. Um, yes. I would go even a step further because the war right now happening between Russia and Ukraine and the West support of it, actually was an extension of RussiaGate.

T- Oh, thank you for saying that

C- Because one of the unintended consequences of RussiaGate I think actually intended but from our perspective because we were so focused on the Trump component was how it was desensitizing the Democrat party to hate Russia. Because if you think about it, Donald Trump was the worst villain ever in the history of the world according to the Democrat party. So, they needed to have an explanation as to how this guy won.

Because, of course, it can't be the fact that they de-industrialized Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania, flooded the country with a bunch of illegals, and allowed opioids into the country. There must be another reason. So, they tried Cambridge Analytica first. Do you remember that was the first attempt?

T- Yes.

C- The Cambridge Analytica thing that it was Donald Trump's ability to get in the back end of Facebook, that's why he won. But that didn't really satisfy the the Democrats. And so simultaneously, we know this because the Russian narrative came ex-nihilo. It came out of nowhere.

T- And that's the way it felt. I was completely confused. And Tulsi is getting to the bottom of it. I'm not going to pretend to know all the details of what she's working on. And I've been cheering her on, sending her text messages saying, "You go Tulsi, you go."

Because it's so wrong what happened to President Trump and so wrong what happened to our country. But when you think about it, it desensitized the entire Democrat party to then have a very negative view of Russia, even beyond a normative western view of Russia as if Donald Trump is an attaché of the Kremlin, and if you hate Trump you therefore must also hate Putin and Russia.

So, fast forward to Putin's invasion of Ukraine. You had the entire Democrat party and the base of the Democrat party that used to be anti-war —that used to be where the Ben & Jerry's guy was. You had him on your show. It was great. But the rank-and-file kind of had a subdued response —at best —to the financing of the Russian Ukrainian war largely because of RussiaGate, because so many base members of the Democrat party and the activists were led to believe that Donald Trump only became president because of the assistance of the Kremlin

T- So smart. And can I just add one parenthetical note— that a lot of them were pro-Russia when it was Soviet.

C- Correct.

T- Because the Soviet Union was above all anti-Christian. And then when the country became Orthodox again, it was easy to hate it again.

C- Yes. And if you— I mean, you know this, you helped lead the— I don't want to say even anti-war— just the skepticism from the West viewpoint —that, why are we sending all this money to Ukraine? Is it good for us? That used to be a left-wing thing that used to always be driven from the base of the Democrat party. And from AOC to Elizabeth Warren to Bernie Sanders, they were largely silent on the amount of money that we sent to Ukraine.

So, why? Is it because they started to love war? No, it's because Putin became an acceptable villain for the Democrat party because they made the archetype of villain and the archetype of Putin and Trump to be kind of one and the same. That all goes back to RussiaGate. It goes back to the lie of the dirty dossier. It goes back to our how our intel agencies were then used inwardly against us.

And that has really been the story the last 30 to 40 years. And you deserve a lot of credit for covering this, which is — our intel services are supposed to gather intelligence and defend the homeland and to keep us domestically safe, but it turns out they're actually more about picking winners and losers in American elections— and to thwart the will of popular sovereignty. So, I hope that we get to the bottom of this because we are still dealing with the— the real world ramifications.

You have to wonder how many Ukrainians and Russians, by the way— cuz people are dying on both sides of this war— that are made in the image of God— are unnecessarily dead because of what our intel services did in 2016 and 2017.

T- I don't think that can be said enough. Thank you for saying it again, that our position, I would say, the war itself, I mean, I think the Biden administration provoked Russia into it by declaring that Ukraine was going to be part of NATO. That that's my interpretation. I think it's true. But even if you don't buy that, we seamlessly moved from no war with Russia into an actual war with Russia. And very few people said anything about it, and I think the reason they didn't is because they had just spent the last three years hearing about how Putin was the worst person in the world. He was our main enemy. Not the Chinese actually, not the Indians, not anybody else. No, it was Russia.

So do you expect that people will be held accountable for it?

C- I hope so. Well, I mean, look, I don't know what's in the details. I don't know what's in the documents. We kind of have a little bit of a teaser. We saw last week what Tulsi said. She said there's more coming. And basically what we learned last week… was that Obama personally ordered an intel report.

It's like, hey, was it true that Russia was behind this election? And from my understanding, the report said, no, Russia was not behind this election. Did not manipulate votes. Trump was not elected because of Russia. This was in December of 2016 —in a private classified intel briefing that is now declassified, thanks to director of national intelligence Tulsi Gabbard.

What is even more chilling though, which goes back to Peter Struck and Lisa Page and James Comey, is how the FBI and the CIA seem to be working on the same page. The FBI was almost doing the domestic bidding of the CIA. And you have to wonder how much of this RussiaGate situation was the insurance policy that Peter Struck famously put in his text messages. remember he was going back and forth with his, you know, uh, with his lover, um, Lisa Page, where he was saying, "Hey, don't worry, we have an insurance policy."

You have to wonder what exactly was that. And my contention is that that was the RussiaGate situation —that they had this dossier paid for by the Democrat party with Clinton funds to then illegally be able to spy on the Trump campaign as an extension of that— create this entire narrative. And you know, part of what also needs to be said is, how much of what Trump won was stolen from President Trump and the mandate of the people because of Russia?

You know, it was very funny. I was thinking about where was I and where were we as a country back in July of 2017, six months into Trump's term back when Trump won. We had Jeff Sessions basically completely sidelined because of his, you know, ‘I have to uh recuse myself’— and honestly, an unnecessary recusal. I think that he never should have recused himself.

We had Bob Mueller—

T- Let me just say that whatever you think of what Sessions did or why he did it or whatever, I'm probably the only person willing to give him credit for, you know, a good faith mistake. I think it was obviously a mistake.

C- He was also great on crime, by the way. Sessions was actually really good on violent crime, but that's a separate issue.

T- But yeah, … I know Jeff Sessions very well. Jeff Sessions is no liberal. Jeff Sessions is a really decent man. Jeff Sessions made a big mistake in my opinion by recusing himself, but he didn't do it to sabotage Trump. He was the first senator to endorse Trump. He loved Trump. So whatever —the whole thing was a tragedy, but my point is, wherever you stand on that, it separated the president from his attorney general.

C- And then Rod Rosenstein was running the entire DOJ. You know what I mean? That that ‘true Trumper’ Rod Rosenstein, right?

T- Pride of Baltimore.

C- Yes. Right. Exactly. As good as it gets.

So Trump was without a Department of Justice with his first term at this point basically. Gosh. We had Bob Mueller like, lurching back under the surface, like, coming back from, you know, they they they brought him out of retirement.

T- And he was kind of in a Biden state at that point without remembering his interview. You didn't know where he was or what was going on. Poor man.

C- We're learning how the modern, technocratic Democrat party works, which is —bring an old guy with a amazing biography by DC standards

T- who happens to have dementia.

C- Yeah. And just put him in the chair and then all of these 30-some lawyers that went to Yale and Harvard will do all the work. It's kind of how a technocratic state works. But anyway, think about where we were in Trump One, which I think is really important, and how we're in a profoundly better position we are today.

The first year of the Trump presidency and then year two or three were largely stolen by this whole RussiaGate situation. President Trump was constantly on defense. He was constantly having to defend himself. He had Mueller looking into Manafort, looking into Cohen, looking into all of his close associates, which of course, the report came out and showed no collusion and all stemming from a lie. And that's the kicker.

So, to answer your question, I hope people start to go to jail. We need perp walks. We need handcuffs. We need mass arrests because you're not allowed to steal precious time of a presidency away from the American people that otherwise would have been spent on governing.

T- You have such a good memory. And I now I'm remembering everything you said and you're absolutely— everything you said, I think, is correct.

Who really runs our government? That's what Tucker and I talk about next. It is now the fight against the intel agencies. All roads lead to the CIA and the intel agencies. And it really comes down to this question of who is in charge of this nation. Now mind you, I did not come into this interview prepared to talk about this, but as a talk show host and a radio guy, I can talk about it most anything at any time. And so we talked about this question of what is the fourth branch of government and who's really in charge.

T- I also think it's just important to know that federal intel and law enforcement agencies are not allowed to form their own separate, unaccountable government and run affairs of state. That's a nightmare scenario that puts you in a dictatorship totally insulated from the public. I mean voters have no way to control that. That's not a democracy. That's a dictatorship. And that's where we are. And I just feel like it's important to expose that and to punish those responsible.

C- Without a doubt. And this is now the big fight in front of Trump Two. And everyone knows it. We ran on it. We said it. And I think we're now going to get massive action in that direction from hopefully Kash and Dan and Pam Bondi and Todd Blanch, the whole gang.

They're focused on this. And I think they're looking for the right place to strike, which is —who actually runs this government?

T- Exactly.

C- The first term we were kind of under this very naïve idea that the people run the government.

T- That's what I thought.

C- And then we were like, well, it's the lobbyists and it's and you're right. It's the lobbyist Santa, right? It's K Street. It's like, yeah, okay.

T- But so true.

C- But now, but after I think, seven or eight years, and it's taken time, we're finally back to where a lot of the Hillsdale crowd has been, and Dr. Larry Arn has been, to his great credit.

It's the administrative state and the intel agencies. Yes, it's this fourth branch of government that the founders never created. They never designed. There was no intent for. And that fourth branch of government is unaccountable, has unknown biographies of people that are running it.

And they're there for unlimited amounts of time. There's no term limits. They're not elected. They're unelected.

T- They are, and I don't want to put you in uncomfortable situations— don't need to comment on this just brief aside, but we actually have civilian control, the control of elected leaders over those agencies, the president of course, but also members of Congress.

We have the committee intelligence boards too, right? And we have something called the Senate Intel Committee, right? And the person leading that, Tom— you don't have to comment on this. I think it's I think Tom Cotton's one of the most sinister people in the US government. It's like your job is to make sure the CIA doesn't form its own separate unaccountable government and yet he's all in on CIA where his wife used to work. Like he is serving CIA and what about his constituents in Arkansas? What about the rest of us? Why— why isn't the guy in charge of keeping the CIA's behavior within constitutional bounds accountable to the president of United States? Why isn't he doing that? And—and I know that there are lots of good things about Tom Cotton. He's a nice guy. Is very smart, but like, what the hell? Why does no one say that?

C- And let me say this also, there are whispers that this next bill is going to be passed, whatever —like- perfunctory bill they have to pass— is going to try to neuter DNI —is that they want to try to wall off —

T- CIA wants the wants Tulsi Gabbard, Joe Kent and the other people, the director of the intelligence and that whole apparatus which was created after 9-11,

C- which is hilarious because it was created by the worst people.

T- Exactly.

C- And now it's actually a center. It's a central nervous system for us to look under the hood and they know it, right? And so again, I don't know all the details of this. I just — someone texted me yesterday, and they said, "Hey, we have to make sure that Tulsi does not get —basically, you know, neutered in this whole process that it just kind of becomes a ceremonial.

T- She's the one person you shouldn't DOGE.

C- No, in fact, Tulsi, and this is very important, the intel agencies by far have the least proportional civilian control versus careers.

T- That's exactly right. CIA has like three or four and —

C- Ratcliffe is, you know, fighting for his life there, and it's like —you have all these unknown amounts of people and what are they doing and it's a blackbox budget and I believe that all roads lead back to the intel agencies on all this stuff and so but Tulsi is now getting under the hood —this revelation of RussiaGate is massive— it's huge and God bless her for doing this.

And I know the president cares about it personally as he should, because how much of his life and his energy was just spent defending against a fabrication —not a fabrication of the Chinese Communist Party by the way, not a fabrication of our adversaries— a fabrication of our own government! That's what makes this so sinister— is that our own government was turned against the duly elected president. So, here we are now in the year of our Lord 2025. Who's running the United States government?

T- Great question.

C- And President Trump, he is now the hunter. He was ‘the hunted’ back in the first term. I know what the grassroots want. I know what President Trump wants. We need perp walks. We need arrests. We need accountability. And if we do not smash the administrative state — the deep state— in the coming six to 12 months, then we're actually not gonna —we're not going to bring this entire intelligence apparatus to heal. We have to lance the boil because it's gone so out of control. And I can tell you they are deeply fearful of this movement. They know that we are aware. They know that we are noticing things that we're seeing patterns that we know how powerful the intel agencies have become.

And so that's why I think RussiaGate really matters — it's a way to hold them accountable to see how dark and honestly —demonic— their activities have become and hopefully an opportunity to fulfill a mandate that President Trump ran on and I still know— believes to this day, which is to bring the deep state— to hopefully smash it —or at the very least —bring it back into balance.

Now in this part of the conversation I dive deeper into the question of what really is the deep state? Where does it come from? What is it the out what is the the outgrowth of? How many branches of government are we supposed to have? What is the administrative state? And what is the shadow government? We dive deep into this, Tucker and I, and we examine this from all angles. And we make a pretty good argument that if we do not assail the deep state, bring it to heel, lance the boil, then we are not going to have a country. President Donald Trump has pledged to reign in the deep state. It's more important than ever. Watch.

T- And the deep state is the intelligence agencies.

C- Well, that's the shadow government, right?

T- CIA. It's not the deep state. Look, it's not the education department.

C- If I could chime in. So, there's two types of deep state, right? There's the Department of Education deep state. They just slow things down. That's their only —They leak and they delay. That's it. That's the deep state of the Department of Labor. So, they, oh, you're getting some sort of executive order we don't like. We're going to leak it to the Washington Post. We're not going to do what you tell us. We're just going to delay and we're going to last. Okay, fine. We can deal with leaking and delaying. The third of which though, which the Department of Labor is not doing, they're not configuring their agency against the sovereign.

T- No. Right. They're probably not killing anyone.

C- No. Exactly. So the intel agencies in its, you know, in its inherited composition from Joe Biden and how it's been for the last 40 years leaking and delaying, they're like, "That's child's play. Okay, we're going to go do dirty dossiers. We're going to spy. We're going to employ feds. We're going to use special agents, double agents. We're going to use five eyes. We're going to rely on our foreign partners to spy on Americans domestically because we can't do that and they'll share the intelligence.”

And so a lot of focus kind of goes on, let's just say the lazy slop of the people at the, you know, Department of Interior. Okay, fine. We can clean that up. God bless the people that want to do that. But if we do not focus the energy of this movement on the administrative state, then we're we are going to have elections in name only. And I know the president understands this because he lived through a thwarted first term largely because of the intel agencies and what we would like to call the shadow government.

T- Trump— 97 charges against him— all in?

Yes. Speaking of which, why don't we know what happened in Butler, Pennsylvania? Remember that day when Donald Trump got shot and he was only millimeters away from dying? Why is it that we have more questions than answers? What happened in Butler, Pennsylvania? I try not to take too much time thinking about Butler. Uh, Butler is a very deep topic. In fact, I'd love you guys to in the comments tell me what your theories are about what happened in Butler, Pennsylvania. And we need arrests. I don't even know if arrests are necessary because we don't know who else was involved. How about this? Let me just rephrase that. We need answers. We're left with a lot more questions than answers. Watch this.

C- And we still don't know what happened on July 13th.

T- We certainly don't at Butler. That's exactly right. Why don't we know that? Do you know?

C- I don't. I don't know. And I know that we have the right —we could not have better people in those positions

T- At- at the top.

C- Like, you know Dan Bongino well. I could speak very high for his integrity.

T- Oh, I love Dan. Yeah.

C- And so I'm going to— they need to act on this. You and I have no— I don't have much more to say than that. But I don't know.

T- FBI needs to and

C- specifically the FBI on that. Yeah.

T- And the FBI stonewalling, and it's not Bongino. It's not Kash Patel. I mean, I don't know actually, but I know that they're stonewalling on that. And I think it's very weird. They still can't get into Krooks's devices.

C- The whole thing is so bizarre.

T- Really? Cuz they can read my text messages. I notice

C- they can read your Signal messages.

T- And they have

C- which is even worse than text messages.

T- I haven't even shot anybody.

C- Yeah, you're not Dick Cheney. Um I will I will go a step further. I try to not spend too much time on July 13th cuz it's bad for my brain.

T- Totally agree.

C- It's so weird. It's so bizarre.

I like spending time with my wife and my kids and I try to have a very focused subset of issues that I get passionate about.

T- That's how I feel.

C- Things that I can't get to answers on will drive me endlessly insane. So I want one day to find out what happened on July 13th, because by only the grace of God and by a millimeter is Trump alive and is Trump president.

T- If you can murder presidential candidates, it's not a democracy obviously.

C- And get away with it, right?

T- But they just can't get into his devices. I mean he had no social media profile. He was

C- —how did he get on the roof and how was it unguarded and then it was two days before the Republican National Convention? It felt again if you were to kind of go in a dark place— which again- this is all speculation. It felt like, well, this is our last chance before he's the nominee. Because you know what happens once you're the nominee —you get secret service protection.

T- Yep

.

C- And this is an unknown element of this. Literally as soon as you get the nomination, by bylaws of secret service, whatever, you get equal presidential protection.

So he had a bunch of DHS hangovers, you know, no offense to the people that were protecting him on the day of Butler —some of which did a great job. Some of which are not people I would necessarily, you know, go to war with.

T- No,

C- just, you know, more more of the TSA agent mold than the Secret Service agent mold. And again, that's not a criticism of them. So, if you want to get like really dark and go in that direction, you have to ask those questions. But I try not to focus too much on Butler cuz I think it actually it leads you in a place where you ask more questions than we have answers.

T- I have the same instincts.

Go to Part 2.